Organic Food A Farce?

[ChinUp]

I was telling a family member that we started getting organic delivered here. They proceded to tell me that the whole thing is a farce and that there are no organic standards, and that there are organic pesticides in use that are worse for you than whatever the other farmers are using, but that they get away with it cause their pesticides are "natural".

Help me out here. I had nothing to back up my end. I'm still buying organic.

Anyone know anything about organic standards, what they can and cannot use, or if there is any truth to what he's saying?

[Mamarazzi]

Heres an article about it from U of Guelph OAC:
Organic Pesticides Not Always 'Greener' Choice, Study Finds | University of Guelph

[lumpmamma]

I am by no means an expert on this at all but a friend pointed out to me that sometimes organic food has to travel so far and this has many affects on the food itself and the environment overall and therefore they will often choose local over organic (but local organic is best).

[*allie*]

Originally Posted by lumpmamma

I am by no means an expert on this at all but a friend pointed out to me that sometimes organic food has to travel so far and this has many affects on the food itself and the environment overall and therefore they will often choose local over organic (but local organic is best).

I don't have any research, just logic and label reading, that convinced me of that.
I don't think that organic, non locally, is better. It means you're shipping stuff farther, which means producing more pollution and exposing your food to pollution en route. Now, it also means more jobs for dh and truckers. But, if we're talking health, I don't see it as superior and if we're talking logically, it makes more sense to me to support local farmers than truckers who could just as likely be from the food's point of origin, as from its destination.

Plus I've noticed sometimes, farms that are one year 'normal' are suddenly the next year 'organic'. I guess times have changed? In the past, my cousins' had to go a couple of years (I forget exact time frames) with no pesticide use, no sprays, etc in their fields before that field was 'clean' and usable for organics. You couldn't just switch over. It took a few years of basically resting and cleaning your fields, before they were viable for organic produce. Now it's like you can just fliip a switch and it's all good? Hmm. I find that suspicious.

[threeforme]

The government is trying to establish a standard for organic. I think they are set to phase it in next year so that consumers will know what it means when they buy a product that says “organic“ on it.

I've posted before about the order of priority when it comes to buying produce around our house, but our first priority is local organic, then local, then imported organic, then everything else. We always go for local over imported. Lately, I've barely purchased anything organic because there's been so much local produce available.

I'll try to find some more helpful links for you. But yeah, when we switched, my FIL, who works at a local apple farm gave me the gears too.

ETA: OK, I checked the CFIA site and the regulations came into effect June 2009. Mostly because, as I remember, in the US and some other countries they had different organic standards than we do so that what was an acceptable pesticide for organics in some states weren't in Canada but they were still allowed to be labelled organic. (I'm just going from memory, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong). The new regulations, *I think* basically require that any organic product coming into the country are only allowed the organic label if they meet our standards and the government specified what our standards would be.

There's a ton of info here, though I haven't had time to wade through it all:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/.../orgbioe.shtml

[AuntPetunia]

It's a two-level thing. Are you buying organic because of health reasons or because of green reasons? If it's health, there is very little evidence that there is any difference. There's the dirty dozen produce which have thin skins and need to use a lot of pesticides for some reason (like strawberries, peaches, and I can't even remember what else) where you have to wash well and they may slightly poison you, but otherwise, washing is fine.

For green reasons, huge difference. The way the land is treated, the way the food is farmed, farming practices, etc. It is being regulated in Canada, I think by the end of this year? I can't remember the date, but I think it's December 2010 there will be a Canadian Organic sticker on all Organic produce here to be certified. Farms can't turn over in 1 season, it's a 7 year process, I believe. Like Farmer Jack's was doing. You can say you're not using chemicals, but not until you've hit the 7 year mark and been approved can you actually say that crop is organic.

Obviously, if you're choosing organic for green reasons, then importing apples from Chile when you can get them from the farm next door is ridiculous. The order is:
1. local organic
2. local non-organic
3. organic imported
4. non-organic imported
So, banana's for example, good to get organic since you're importing anyway. Strawberries, buy local in season and freeze.
Oh, and on those lines, buying frozen organic fruits/vegs is also a weird concept when you think about how much of a footprint it is to ship frozen produce from Bali or whatever. Buy fresh and freeze yourself, unless you're going to buy it frozen anyway (like peas/beans/corn), then check for packaged in Ontario.

Can I ramble longer? Why, yes I can.

I like the organic delivery, myself. I don't use it much during the summer/early fall when stuff is local. But when I find myself just buying everything in the grocery store instead of markets, then I see the value in the box service. And EO offers local options, do they not? You can pick and choose.

Never heard of the bad green pesticides though. Will look that up and reserve the right to retract my entire post.

[AuntPetunia]

Originally Posted by Mamarazzi

Heres an article about it from U of Guelph OAC:
Organic Pesticides Not Always 'Greener' Choice, Study Finds | University of Guelph

Is there any other info? That doesn't seem overly convincing. I will automatically mistrust anything involving soybeans bc of Monsanto. But it is interesting, if that applies to other crops.

[Mamarazzi]

I am not sure, it was all I could find at that time of night
But I think the beans were just a test crop to see what the difference would be and they chose beans cause its the biggest crop out here. I have to agree boo to monsanto, but as I sit here with my 40 acres of monsanto beans *blush* theres not much choice as a farmer in the bean department.

I'll try and see if I can find anything else

[Mamarazzi]

So heres a link about organic certifiaction in ontario:
Certification

Heres another article from U of Saskatchewan which I though made this good point:

Organic vs. Inorganic

There has been much controversy over organic versus inorganic fertilizers. It is important to realize that plants do not recognize the difference between organic and inorganic fertilizers. Their tiny root hairs can absorb only nutrients that have been broken down into inorganic, water-soluble forms. It makes no difference to your tomato plant if the atom of nitrogen it is absorbing has come from a compost pile or a fertilizer factory. There are, however, advantages and disadvantages to each form of fertilizer, organic and inorganic.

You can read the rest of it here:
Fertilizer: Application (Organic Vs Inorganic)


And I found all the info by google searching organic vs inorganic food and the list of results can be seen here:
Google



What I got from it was that with plants it didnt really matter because there will be residue on the fruit of the plant no matter what. The best thing to look for in plants is to avoid the GMO's in my opinion.

As far as meat and dairy, then organic to me is a better option hands down. It makes a difference here because of artificial growth hormones, treatment of the animals, injections, feed type, antibiotics, processing practices and more.

But like turtle said it depends on if you are chosing organic for your health or if your opting for something more environmentally friendly.

[AuntPetunia]

Dairy isn't a big deal here like it is in the States as far as health reasons. BGH for example, is banned. Not sure about artificial growth hormones for other species, but cow milk and things made from Canadian cows milk are nearly on par with organic milk. Environmentally, very different however.