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gr8mommy · 03-11-2010, 09:41 AM

So:

I wish for my children to be educated in french immersion (Catholic). He wants English (Catholic). We both have compelling reasons. It's hard to reconcile a decision!

He points out that many in FI suffer later in life with English grammar, as well as science courses, etc. That research shows they either come out "average" or "just below" academia wise. He's also pointed out that provinces, like New Brunswich, have dropped their intense french immersion programs recently. He's done some research, that's for sure.

I want FI for reasons like most: More job opportunities (although he says most jobs are just costumer service desk, etc.). I also have french family so that is a side reason. Plus I've always loved french and wished I spoke it more.

What to do :S Is there any tough evidence out there about results of the two classes of education throughout the years of learning?

Carol · 03-11-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr8mommy

So:

I

He points out that many in FI suffer later in life with English grammar, as well as science courses, etc. That research shows they either come out “average“ or “just below“

Do you have a link to the research he found? I find the above statement hard to believe. When I was in elementary school(english) grammar was stressed in french instruction but certainly not in English classes. After taking a university writing class with students in their early 20's I doubt much has changed.

In regards to NB dropping FI programs, the province has a very large francophone population. In fact it is the only official bilingual province. (Quebec is unilingual) Perhaps FI is being dropped because it is already well served by french first and english schools? It would make sense for NB but I doubt it would happen here in Ontario.

sittingpretty · 03-11-2010, 10:34 AM

what does your court order state?

mamabear · 03-11-2010, 10:36 AM

I thought FI kids were more advanced in the long run? I can tell you that when I transfered from FI to English in grade 6 I was years ahead of the other kids in freaking English of all things! Also I transfered like 2 weeks into the school year and was already about a week ahead in math (we had the same math text, only in French, so I knew exactly how many pages behind they were), and the other students were learning French at like grade 1 level. So I find it pretty hard to believe that FI kids suffer in the long run. I found English incredibly boring and unchallenging after transferring.

ETA: Check out Danielle's post here, it's from a university textbook and says French-speaking kids outperform English kids in the long run.
English vs. French Immersion

BabyLove · 03-11-2010, 10:43 AM

I think it really depends on the child. I have known a couple of families where their kids did french immersion for 1 - 2 years and they ended up having to pull them and enrol them in English school. It was too hard for them to help their kids out with assignments, etc because neither parent was fluent in French. Their kids were all falling behind. The transition to English speaking school worked out well for them.

I only know 1 person that went to FI until the end of Grade 8 and he did have a tough time in Grade 9 because he was so used to having his classes being taught in French. It took him awhile to catch up to the other kids in English as well. He eventually did and graduated with honours and completed university. His Mom was fluent in French as well. I am not sure how much of a difference that makes in the long run.

just ducky · 03-11-2010, 12:50 PM

It really depends on the child. My DD#2 graduated from gr8 in FI. She thrived in the FI environment. For high school, she chose to go to english school for various reasons. Her transition was very easy. In high school she has earned many academic awards.

Quote:

He points out that many in FI suffer later in life with English grammar, as well as science courses, etc. That research shows they either come out “average“ or “just below“ academia wise.

The research shows they come out average or just below doesn't mean those students would do any better in an english stream.

My DD was reading english chapter books independently before she started FI in Grade 1. She continued to be an avid reader of english and some french throughout elementary school. Her english was never hindered by the FI. She actually has a better understanding of language structure due to her bilingualism.

The teachers will talk to you if they feel FI is not a good fit for your child in the primary years. It is easy to transfer them to english if FI is not for them. They can't as easily transfer into the FI due to the entry points(SK, gr1 & gr7).

laurensmom · 03-11-2010, 01:58 PM

If you send your LO to FI, keep in mind that they are not instructed in reading/writing english until grade 3. Therefor, you will need to do that yourself.

MamaM · 03-11-2010, 06:28 PM

is this your ex or current partner?

mom2two · 03-11-2010, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laurensmom

If you send your LO to FI, keep in mind that they are not instructed in reading/writing english until grade 3. Therefor, you will need to do that yourself.

TVDSB F.I. programs do teach English with a ratio of 30% English to 70% French (SK-Gr. 8).

mominjuly08 · 03-12-2010, 05:06 PM

Take this for what it is worth

...

Well, one way to solve the dilemma is to enrol the kids in the FI program. If DS has objections and wants to take the time, he can take the time to go enrol them in an different program. I have had a couple of friends “take the initiative“ and their husbands didn't bother (my words, not theirs) to make a fuss about it.

Tanya-Mae · 03-13-2010, 10:33 PM

I was still with my husband when Taylor started school. I believed strongly in sending her to french immersion because she was very bright and I wanted her to learn everything she could. He was dead set against it. He argued it made kids stupid.. relating to his younger sister. She went to french immersion school and performs poorly in written english. Exactly how she performs in written english I do not know first-hand but I am more apt to believe that it was the frequent school changes that affected her grades.. their father was a travelling insurance salesperson then a travelling minister.. they were always moving. Anyways, the way this issue was resolved.. I just signed her up to the program I wanted... I was the primary and involved caregiver, essentially a single parent despite him physically in the same home. He complained but did nothing. She attended immersion jk, then I separated and moved south. She is currently in gr 6 immersion. When convienent he will come just short of saying I should pull her out of immersion but his reasons are fluff in my opinion. Not that I am suggesting you do this, it is just what happened in my case. BTW I am not a french speaking person... and wish my parents would have done this for me.

MonsterMom · 03-14-2010, 01:47 PM

I did FI and haven't used it once. I did a late FI program I (starting in grade 7). My kids are in English. My son has no interest in French at all. My daughter loves languages, though, and might really like it but it will be her choice, not mine.

Reese'smom · 03-14-2010, 02:03 PM

I think she's talking about her current partner (SO-significant other). I think you both have good points. I think those that are in favor of FI would argue about the grammar stuff, etc. I grew up with several friends who went to FI schools and I do think the point about grammar is generally true. I'm not sure about the other points though. My DD is in an FI school and I think for me it is important to make sure she is doing stuff like reading and writing in English at home. Also, I don't think the program is suited for all children. I think if your children are bright, do well academically (up to this point), and have interest in learning a new language, I would go for it. I would probably pull my child out of FI if I found my child was struggling though. I wouldn't push it at the risk of her overall education. I don't think that customer service jobs are the only new opportunities that would be opened up to your bilingual children though.

Wethree · 03-14-2010, 02:17 PM

It's tough. Dh and I are on the same page so I don't know what to suggest.
Can you compromise? Send to and english school and make your home french? I know friends who did that..(she's french and only spoke french at home) No different than other families who speak another language at home..kids are fluent in that language and also english (from school)

gr8mommy · 03-28-2010, 09:57 PM

So I've decided on FI and finally have his agreement on this!

We've researched a lot into the other school option where we'd be living, and would prefer they stay in their school.

My son is also excelling in french. However, struggling in “english“. I think moving him right now wouldn't be a good thing, as he'd feel greatly 'behind' compared to the others. We just need to work harder on his english reading/writing.