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  1. #31
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    I was watching Good Morning America before I came to work this morning and saw the story. They have this Christine woman who does commentating on the Olympics (she is a past Olympian I believe - I want to say a swimmer) anyhow she said they will most like no longer let Caster compete. Her tests showed out 75% testosterone and 25% estrogen. They said she is too strong for the female category and not strong enough for the male category. Then she went on to make this shocking statement - “There is a category for male and a category for female. There is no category for other!“ I was like what?!?! I couldn't believe she could make such a callous statement.

  2. #32
    Zoo
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyLove View Post
    “There is a category for male and a category for female. There is no category for other!“ I was like what?!?! I couldn't believe she could make such a callous statement.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colleen View Post
    Didn't know. Usually in Western medicine when they see both parts at birth parents are pressured to have something removed and undergo a lot of unnecessary testing. I wish they would leave it be until the kid is old enough to decide. I assumed that's why they were saying “surgery!“ here.
    Increased risk of testicular cancer, don't know if there are more problems.

    I am just so very sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyLove View Post
    Then she went on to make this shocking statement - “There is a category for male and a category for female. There is no category for other!“ I was like what?!?! I couldn't believe she could make such a callous statement.
    That is absolutely disgusting.

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    It's just another example of how ignorant most of us are on this issue though, and how we cling to this divide between He and She even though we are constantly redefining these roles. New thread time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoo View Post
    It's just another example of how ignorant most of us are on this issue though, and how we cling to this divide between He and She even though we are constantly redefining these roles. New thread time.
    Can I just say, that I am very informed on this issue because I watched Footballers' Wives and they had an intersex baby on there (I just forgot the term). I am only half joking. FW was a seriously trashy (but oh so good) show but they tackled that particular issue really well, IMO.

  7. #37
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    I feel very bad for her, especially as I personally know an intersexed child.

    I'm kind of wondering if she knew this before the tests. If she didn't then this is even worse. I have a bit of a hard time imagining that she did not know, though.
    I'm assuming that her external sexual organs look female and she probably has a vagina, so at birth nobody would have noticed. However without ovaries and uterus she never entered puberty and never would have menstruated, which should have raised some questions at some point.

    I understand the suggested surgery for the undescended testes, but I'm wondering what they are exactly suggesting. Removing them would seriously change her hormonal levels, while descending them (if that's possible) would change her appearance a lot.

  8. #38
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    That poor woman to be publicly outed and used in that manner - that's disgusting. Did someone there need publicity or something to have to publish that????

    In response to the ignorance - I totally admit to being ignorant about it, I didn't know that hermaphrodite was an incorrect term, I actually would have thought it was probably the more correct term iykwim...(thanks LM's for teaching me!) That being said it's difficult to BE educated about a subject that seems so taboo to discuss. BC of the stigma attached to it, people who are intersex do not want to discuss it (they shouldn't have to) and so it just seems like a hush hush subject until something like this comes to light - at the expense of the poor individual.

    and one tiny last thing - imo there is no way that men and woman could compete together in sports - there is a huge physical advantage. My personal example is when I was in highschool and in track and cross country I did very well and competed at provincial level with high rankings, however I had a male friend that I ranand trained with who I would say was on par with my skills and he did not even make it to county level competitions. You can tell the physical differences when you compare gold medal stats in the olympics between males and females - there are often quite a few MINUTE differences between the 2, and even one minute is HUGE when it comes down to timing that is in hundreths of a second.

    Again - this poor woman, I truly don't know what the appropriate answer for her to compete would be



  9. #39
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    on the surgery - I don't know whether it's appropriate or not... but this organization certainly doesn't seem to be the appropriate one AT ALL to be making those kinds of suggestions, publicly or personally - they shouldn't even be commenting on it at all! totally out of place



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    Other could encompass all kinds of people though, although the term is terrible. She just might be ignorant of the proper terms and whatnot, like me.

  11. #41
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    I think she should be able to compete
    Mom of 2 girls, unschooler, feminist, runner and just general lover of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doulamom View Post
    I think she should be able to compete
    Compete where though? That's the question for me.

  13. #43
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    Do you mean in men or women's competitions? Or do you mean at what level of sport? I think she should be able to compete as a woman at any level she can qualify for.
    Mom of 2 girls, unschooler, feminist, runner and just general lover of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foximamma View Post
    on the surgery - I don't know whether it's appropriate or not... but this organization certainly doesn't seem to be the appropriate one AT ALL to be making those kinds of suggestions, publicly or personally - they shouldn't even be commenting on it at all! totally out of place
    Exactly, this is supposed to be an article about sports and the Olympics, not judging her on her surgical options. They have no business telling her that she needs surgery. That is a decision for her and her doctors to discuss IN PRIVATE.

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    So I found this article in Time....

    Is Caster Semenya Really a Man? The Answer Won't Be Simple - TIME
    quotes:

    In his paper “Intersex and the Olympic Games,“ Rob Ritchie, a urological surgeon at Oxford University, notes that in the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta the last Games in which all female athletes were subjected to gender testing eight female athletes were found to be genetically male. Seven of them had androgen-insensitivity syndrome (AIS), a condition in which a genetic male is resistant to androgens, the male sex hormones that include testosterone. In such cases, the testes never descend from the abdomen and the genitalia may resemble female genitalia.
    Olympic officials do not consider AIS to necessarily confer an advantage. The seven genetically male athletes with AIS at the Atlanta Olympics were allowed to compete as women. However, the incidence of AIS in Atlanta seven cases among 3,000 athletes compared with the rate in the general population, which is 1 in 20,000, suggests that partial AIS can boost athletic ability, Ritchie says. “But,“ he adds, “it's never been proven that women found to be genetically male have any physical advantage above what might otherwise be seen in the extremes of genetically female women.“

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