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Thread: Measles scare in London!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckymama View Post
    I understand parents being upset by non vaccinating parents but I wanted to point out that non vaccinating parents don't vaccinate because they don't care. They don't vaccinate because most have researched and didn't vaccinate because they DO care. Parents will never agree on this issue but one thing we can agree on is that parents do what they feel is safest for their children. I see it from both sides.
    I didn't say that it was because the parents didn't care. They may be misguided or misinformed in making their choice though. The idea that measles and other vaccine preventable diseases aren't prevalent enough to justify vaccinating is like saying that we don't need seatbelts/car seats/smoke detectors because there aren't that many fatal accidents. There are not that many cases of disease or in my analogy, FATAL accidents because we use seat belts, child restraints and smoke detectors. The herd immunity won't help if more and more people don't get vaccinated.

    This is from the World Health Organization which has been instrumental in ridding the world of Smallpox and is getting close to eliminating polio through vaccines. WHO | Measles
    Last edited by nananana; 03-16-2014 at 02:41 PM.
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    The person who has the measles and was in those locations may have been vaccinated. The vaccine isn't 100% reliable... I had the measles in the early 90's and I had been vaccinated as a child. I was in the hospital for a long time in isolation. It was actually pretty frightening to be that sick. Both of my girls have been vaccinated but I do understand the reasons some choose not to.
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    There will always be a small percentage of the population who the vaccine has no effect on or those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. This is why it is important for as many people as possible to vaccinate in order to protect not only themselves but those who cannot be vaccinated.
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    The numbers I have read lately, in reading the Ottawa cases, and the Alberta outbreak, say that 5% of people receiving any given vaccine will be unable to develop the immunity. I know I do not develop an immunity to rubella as I learn from my blood test at the beginning of pregnancy and have had MMR after each pregnancy and wasn't immune at 23 (shot at 24) and wasn't immune at 31 (shot at 32).
    And you need to have 90% of a population immune for measles as it is apparently very contagious compared to other diseases with immunizations. So, 5% are unable to develop immunity and a small percentage (I can't find %) are unable to receive vaccines due to health or are now immune compromised and can't fight it off. Then we add in people who choose not to vaccinate and we drop below that 90% needed for herd immunity.

    Also, without them looking at dr's files we don't really know if someone is immunized. The system is a joke as the gov doesn't pay anyone to keep track! The Health Unit only knows if you are immunized IF you contact them and tell them, YOU fill in when your child had an immunization, whether it is true or not as no one is paid to check. You can be vaccinated and the HU doesn't know if you don't tell htem and you can have lied and said they were immunized when they weren't.
    Last edited by melissawilliam; 03-16-2014 at 08:41 PM.

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    What boggles MY mind is the theory that VACCINES have caused this problem and that a healthy diet can solve it.

    Anyone explain this reasoning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_ View Post
    What boggles MY mind is the theory that VACCINES have caused this problem and that a healthy diet can solve it.

    Anyone explain this reasoning?
    What problem have vaccines caused? The measles scare? I must have missed something.
    Last edited by laurensmom; 03-16-2014 at 09:19 PM.
    "Anything is better than lies and deceit". Leo Tolstoy

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    Its floating around the comments on facebook and news stories, that vaccines are actually the cause of this, NOT the anti-vaccine movement. They believe a healthy diet is better protection than a vaccine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_ View Post
    Its floating around the comments on facebook and news stories, that vaccines are actually the cause of this, NOT the anti-vaccine movement. They believe a healthy diet is better protection than a vaccine.
    Maybe they are confusing it with whooping cough? The vaccine does offer protection but there are some real concerns the person who got the vaccine is contagious to others. Whooping cough vaccine may not halt spread of illness - NBC News

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    Quote Originally Posted by my2babies View Post
    Maybe they are confusing it with whooping cough? The vaccine does offer protection but there are some real concerns the person who got the vaccine is contagious to others. Whooping cough vaccine may not halt spread of illness - NBC News
    I'm not sure if you worded it wrong, as you are sort of saying what the article says, but also saying what I have heard people say online. It says they are working on a theory that the newer vaccine for whooping cough (causes less pain/fever as a side effect) MIGHT still allow the person to be a carrier of the disease if they come into contact with it. Someone who got the vaccine is NOT contagious! BUT if they come in contact with someone who has the disease and "catch it", they will not have any symptoms but will still be contagious for a few weeks. Again, this wouldn't be a big deal IF everyone who could vaccinates and therefore rarely anyone develops whooping cough and therefore few people come in contact, and in turn those who are unable to be immune are protected. It just means those who don't vaccinate or can't vaccinate are more at risk Sounds like they may go back to an older style that had more side effects depending on what the study finds in the end.


    I don't think anyone really believes that a healthy diet will protect them from Measles, lol. It is either trolls on sites trying to stir up fun for themselves, or those people who seem to think all diseases are similar to common cold. I read people make the comment, "My children are not immunized and they never get sick".??? These people are just very uneducated on what is actually being discussed. It makes some sense when discussing the flu vaccine, as those who are healthy are less likely to catch the flu. But normally when discussing vaccines people refer to the ones given to infants/toddlers for real diseases, and these are not prevented by eating healthy. No one can assume because their child hasn't developed a severe disease yet that it is because they are healthy, it is because they have never come in contact with the disease, thanks to all the other parents who are protecting their child.

    We also know there are no severe side effects to immunization. Not counting fever/rash/soreness at injection sight, which are common, there were NO problems with vaccines in 2013 in Windsor/Essex county. And no issues have been found in Canada in 2013 by the Pediatric nurses whose job is to research and find a connection (these are people who will have jobs even if there are no vaccines, and are paid by a gov who gets stuck paying for all those vaccines - so if anything, there agenda would be to find problems and get rid of vaccines to save Canada money).

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    I have done plenty of research and in cases (may be not common) but in some cases there are serious side effects. The "higher ups" try to sweep it under the rug but they are there nonetheless. People who don't vaccinate are NOT uneducated. It just means that they have a different opinion than you. There is no need to start calling names on either side of the coin. Parents have different personal reasons for vax'ing or not vax'ing. They may not agree with each other but they should be able to respect each other and know that parents do what they feel is the right thing to do. I don't get into the facts about vax'ing. I just don't have the energy or time or motivation. I wish people could focus more on parents hearts being in the right place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckymama View Post
    I have done plenty of research and in cases (may be not common) but in some cases there are serious side effects. The "higher ups" try to sweep it under the rug but they are there nonetheless. People who don't vaccinate are NOT uneducated. It just means that they have a different opinion than you. There is no need to start calling names on either side of the coin. Parents have different personal reasons for vax'ing or not vax'ing. They may not agree with each other but they should be able to respect each other and know that parents do what they feel is the right thing to do. I don't get into the facts about vax'ing. I just don't have the energy or time or motivation. I wish people could focus more on parents hearts being in the right place.
    Agreed.

    And, I personally know someone who was seemingly healthy and had a serious, life threatening reaction to a "safe" vaccine, here in Sarnia....so, IDK where your info (MelissaWilliam) is coming from, but it is not accurate.
    "Anything is better than lies and deceit". Leo Tolstoy

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    I didnt say those who don't vaccinate are uneducated, but those who truly believe if they keep their child healthy they won't catch those diseases and those who say their child wasn't immunized and hasn't caught it yet because they are healthy ARE uneducated - I am referring to people who say "my neighbours kid was vaccinated but gets sick all the time and mine is healhty and hasn't been vaccinated" - these 2 things have nothing in common!!! That refers to the common cold.

    I do believe others who do not vaccinate are educated and have looked at everything, and since Ontario still has herd immunity (Alberta, or parts of it, do not anymore) they look at the odds, and realize it is very unlikely their child will ever come in contact with measles, and therefore more unlikely they will catch it, and if they do and are sick for a long time the odds are in their favour they will come out the same at the other end.

    I would like for you to explain how the "higher ups" sweep it under the rug??? Are you saying that Drs are TOLD in the public eye they legally must contact the health unit, but then the gov goes and tells EVERY Dr to call a different number or to not report it - AND none of these Drs ever blows the whistle??? And what about people who are told to call their health unit if they have an issue??? Are the secretaries paid off so they don't properly transfer the call??? My sister worked as a secretary for a mat leave when she finished her undergrad and she wasn't told about that (OR you believe she is keeping it a secret, lol). IF the secretary gets a call are these "higher ups" tracking every call like in a spy movie and they INTERCEPT the call as soon as they hear the person mention key words??? HOW does the call NOT get transferred to the health unit nurse in charge of these calls? HOW does she not receive a single complaint call in all of 2013 (in Windsor/Essex) from drs OR clients OR complaints from the clinics, yet the higher ups are sweeping it under the rug? (I do believe some drs may sweep something under the rug if they do not feel it is serious, BUT the hospital is supposed to contact that same nurse if someone comes in and says their issue is from a vaccine, so I do believe SOME cases may at "initial contact" not "higher up" get swept under the rug because they don't see it as a big deal and therefore NEVER report.
    Last edited by melissawilliam; 03-17-2014 at 06:30 AM.

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    I find your post mildly offensive. It seems you are insinuating that because I don't completely trust the government that I am sitting at my computer at 3am terrified that I am being spied on by higher ups. I am logical. I do know of people who have had their children vaccinated and they changed. They then went and made a complaint to VARS or other places and were told that it wasn't because of the vaccine. Clearly it was but they are told no. Many, many times this happens. I have no idea what happens with nurses and where you are talking about. I am talking about the countless stories I have read full of heartache and authorities not acknowledging what parents know and I am also talking about people that I have talked to. It is actually quite hard to prove that a vaccine caused a severe reaction.
    I would prefer not to go back and forth on this. I know in my heart why I do what I do and that is enough for me. It is hard to see broad generalizations about non vax'ers and not respond. I said what I wanted to say so I am going to step away.
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    I wanted to point out one more thing. It was a hard decision for me. I took into account the prevalence of the diseases, how serious they are, immune compromised people, the vaccines themselves and my gut instinct. I care about other people as well as my children. I did not take this decision lightly. 9 yrs ago when I talked to our family doctor I asked him what severe side effects there are and he said there are none. Come on. I had done my research so it makes it hard to trust. If he would have been honest then that makes it much easier for me to have an educated decision.
    When people say that their child is less sick because they vax I think they mean their immune system. When someone is vaccinated, their immune system is lowered. It is something foreign going into the body. This is what I believe after my research anyway. That could be what they are referring to.
    Anway, have a nice day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nananana View Post
    I didn't say that it was because the parents didn't care. They may be misguided or misinformed in making their choice though. The idea that measles and other vaccine preventable diseases aren't prevalent enough to justify vaccinating is like saying that we don't need seatbelts/car seats/smoke detectors because there aren't that many fatal accidents. There are not that many cases of disease or in my analogy, FATAL accidents because we use seat belts, child restraints and smoke detectors. The herd immunity won't help if more and more people don't get vaccinated.

    This is from the World Health Organization which has been instrumental in ridding the world of Smallpox and is getting close to eliminating polio through vaccines. WHO | Measles
    I think thats pretty insulting to non vaccinating parents esp as every one I have met are some of the smartest folks I have ever met.

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