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Thread: Streetcar shooting

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_ View Post
    Maybe cops are quicker to shoot now a days because theres been a lot of horrible things that have happened lately.
    Maybe they didnt known he only had a knife? What if he had a
    bomb and blew everyone up before they could wrestle him. I dont know, just thinking out loud.
    Given my expiernces with Toronto cops many are trigger/violence happy.

    I can not count how many times me and my homeless buddies were woken up to cops hitting us with billy clubs we were sleeping tell me how thats needed?

    I can relay stories of cops taking folks to cherry beach for beatings cause they pissed em off

    or how bout em breaking my arm at 16 when I was standing against a fence not resisting and then when I was given the phone to speak with the siu the cops told exactly what to say or else and when I later called the siu myself to tell em the truth those same cops harassed me everyday untill I relented and dropped it.

    or how about them breaking the hip of a drunk harmless guy who just wanted to see why they were arresting his then girl friend? he too had to relent on charges due to harssasassment from the police.

    so i get while police face a lot of sh** daily they are not all innocent either esp 14 division where this occured

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingpretty View Post
    Streetcar shooting: Toronto police officer suspended - Toronto - CBC News



    from the article

    I get Lm's point of view but I think we as a society need to question this but like I said when your own chief of police is concerned about what happened then something is wrong.

    I am all for people facing the consequences of thier actions I have watched my kid at 11 get kneed in the gut by cops and taken by 4 at once and not once have I said overuse of force given the situation but this one damn straight I do fully believe the cop had a ton of other options other shooting NINE times.

    and just to make clear its not as if multiple officers shot at once its one cop shooting nine times
    Actually, I have yet to give my point of view on this one.

    Here are the facts.

    His age is irrelevant, an person with a knife on a street car IS a threat, regardless of age. He got shot by police, who were trying to protect themselves and the general public. He died. None of us were there and none of us know exactly what transpired, regardless of what we THINK we see on random video footage.

    My point of view is.....I would have shot him myself if I felt that he was a threat to me or someone near me and I had a gun. No doubt about it.

    IMO he was justified in the shooting. The suspect advanced with a knife after being instructed not to. Was he justified in shooting 9 times, No idea. But I do know that there are countless examples of someone who is scared and adrenaline filled shooting many times more than they remember because of the fear they are feeling at the time. Maybe that happened? IDK I wasn't there. I am not here to defend anyone, nor to vilify someone. Its easy to be an armchair quarterback after the event, but unless you've been in the situation, you really can't say what you'd do.

    ETA-given the protests etc I am not surprised the officer has been suspended, for his own safety. In no way is that indicative of wrongdoing.
    Last edited by laurensmom; 07-30-2013 at 09:42 PM.
    "Anything is better than lies and deceit". Leo Tolstoy

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurensmom View Post
    Actually, I have yet to give my point of view on this one.

    Here are the facts.

    His age is irrelevant, an person with a knife on a street car IS a threat, regardless of age. He got shot by police, who were trying to protect themselves and the general public. He died. None of us were there and none of us know exactly what transpired, regardless of what we THINK we see on random video footage.

    My point of view is.....I would have shot him myself if I felt that he was a threat to me or someone near me and I had a gun. No doubt about it.

    IMO he was justified in the shooting. The suspect advanced with a knife after being instructed not to. Was he justified in shooting 9 times, No idea. But I do know that there are countless examples of someone who is scared and adrenaline filled shooting many times more than they remember because of the fear they are feeling at the time. Maybe that happened? IDK I wasn't there. I am not here to defend anyone, nor to vilify someone. Its easy to be an armchair quarterback after the event, but unless you've been in the situation, you really can't say what you'd do.

    ETA-given the protests etc I am not surprised the officer has been suspended, for his own safety. In no way is that indicative of wrongdoing.

    For someone who says the aren, you're doing a really good job of defending the extreme actions of police here. Just sayin'

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDavis View Post
    For someone who says the aren, you're doing a really good job of defending the extreme actions of police here. Just sayin'
    Really?

    Were you there? I wasn't. So, I have no idea what was or was not justified or what was or was not extreme....and neither do you.

    But I do know, 100% that if someone with a knife approached me or my family, I would shoot them without a second thought about it. Just sayin'
    Last edited by laurensmom; 07-30-2013 at 09:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurensmom View Post
    Really?

    Were you there? I wasn't. So, I have no idea what was or was not justified or what was or was not extreme....and neither do you.

    But I do know, 100% that if someone with a knife approached me or my family, I would shoot them without a second thought about it. Just sayin'
    I was simply pointing out that you claim to not be defending anyone, yet you clearly are defending one party in this happening (cough cough the police cough...)
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    I like to know why was it necessary to shoot a guy 9 times? One would think ones would be enough. How many shots does it take to take someone down? After all we are dealing with police officers that are trained professionals, right?

    I hope this gets clarified one way or another

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDavis View Post
    I was simply pointing out that you claim to not be defending anyone, yet you clearly are defending one party in this happening (cough cough the police cough...)
    Enough with the "cough cough" for goodness sake. We are all adults here.

    As I said before, in this thread I stated MY opinion on what I WOULD HAVE DONE given the info we had. And, I responded to some questions about tasering, a topic on which I do have some first hand knowledge. No where in the thread have I DEFENDED anyone.

    Last I heard, this thread was for discussion of our opinions? I *thought* I was allowed to state mine too?

    Enough derailing the thread now.
    "Anything is better than lies and deceit". Leo Tolstoy

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurensmom View Post
    Actually, I have yet to give my point of view on this one.

    Here are the facts.

    His age is irrelevant, an person with a knife on a street car IS a threat, regardless of age. He got shot by police, who were trying to protect themselves and the general public. He died. None of us were there and none of us know exactly what transpired, regardless of what we THINK we see on random video footage.

    My point of view is.....I would have shot him myself if I felt that he was a threat to me or someone near me and I had a gun. No doubt about it.

    IMO he was justified in the shooting. The suspect advanced with a knife after being instructed not to. Was he justified in shooting 9 times, No idea. But I do know that there are countless examples of someone who is scared and adrenaline filled shooting many times more than they remember because of the fear they are feeling at the time. Maybe that happened? IDK I wasn't there. I am not here to defend anyone, nor to vilify someone. Its easy to be an armchair quarterback after the event, but unless you've been in the situation, you really can't say what you'd do.

    ETA-given the protests etc I am not surprised the officer has been suspended, for his own safety. In no way is that indicative of wrongdoing.
    no where did I claim his age was a factor?

    we are gonna have to agree to disagree becasue I will never think NINE shots and then a tazer is acceptable in this case and personally I am glad for the two videos becasue they give a great picture of how to form our own opinions verus only hearing those of the cops.

    I dont see anyone saying what they would do but we do have a right to question the police and thier actions.
    gogomom and pink-lily like this.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingpretty View Post
    no where did I claim his age was a factor?

    we are gonna have to agree to disagree becasue I will never think NINE shots and then a tazer is acceptable in this case and personally I am glad for the two videos becasue they give a great picture of how to form our own opinions verus only hearing those of the cops.

    I dont see anyone saying what they would do but we do have a right to question the police and thier actions.
    Can you show me where I said that 9 shots and then a tazer was acceptable? Cause I am sure that I didn't. I said, shooting him was justified IMO. And I will stand by that. Was shooting him 9 times acceptable? I don't know because I wasn't there and the video of what happened after the first shot is not clear enough to know what transpired. In fact, AFAIK it has not been release how many of the shots actually hit him? Why was he tasered? I have no idea.
    "Anything is better than lies and deceit". Leo Tolstoy

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    Quote Originally Posted by laurensmom View Post
    Can you show me where I said that 9 shots and then a tazer was acceptable? Cause I am sure that I didn't. I said, shooting him was justified IMO. And I will stand by that. Was shooting him 9 times acceptable? I don't know because I wasn't there and the video of what happened after the first shot is not clear enough to know what transpired. In fact, AFAIK it has not been release how many of the shots actually hit him? Why was he tasered? I have no idea.

    I never said you deemed 9 shots acceptable but you deem any shots ok and that is where we disagree.

    I dont feel the police did enough to try and calm the situation down, as shown in my second video the whole thing lasted less than 6 minutes.

    I personally can understand shooting if a gun is involved but seriously it was a knife he was not near them there are other things the police could have done.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurensmom View Post
    Enough with the "cough cough" for goodness sake. We are all adults here.

    As I said before, in this thread I stated MY opinion on what I WOULD HAVE DONE given the info we had. And, I responded to some questions about tasering, a topic on which I do have some first hand knowledge. No where in the thread have I DEFENDED anyone.

    Last I heard, this thread was for discussion of our opinions? I *thought* I was allowed to state mine too?

    Enough derailing the thread now.
    I'm not derailing, just pointing out the hypocrisy of your statement. The sum of all of your comments in this thread CLEARLY shows a bias toward police and therefore a defence of police (lookeee, no coughing that time, these lozenges must work).


  12. #42
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    Some interesting info here about knife attacks for those of you who are interested.

    Gun vs Knife
    "Anything is better than lies and deceit". Leo Tolstoy

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDavis View Post
    I'm not derailing, just pointing out the hypocrisy of your statement. The sum of all of your comments in this thread CLEARLY shows a bias toward police and therefore a defence of police (lookeee, no coughing that time, these lozenges must work).
    So, then would your posts show anti-police sentiment then? Or, is it just anti-laurensmom sentiment? Since you seem so focused on drawing a line between my opinion and your opinion that I am "defending" the police?

    I think that the shooting is justified. That is my opinion. Is that "defending" the police? If so, I guess I am. Feel free to point out the "hypocrisy" of that then if it makes you feel better I have no idea if 9 shots and the taser was justified or not.

    This topic is getting old though. Think what you will about my "bias" or "defenSe" of the police. I've made my opinion on it clear. I'm not going to continue to debate this with you.
    Last edited by laurensmom; 07-30-2013 at 11:11 PM.
    "Anything is better than lies and deceit". Leo Tolstoy

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by laurensmom View Post
    Some interesting info here about knife attacks for those of you who are interested.

    Gun vs Knife
    Oh come on, there were at least 10 officers with their guns already pointed at him. It was not like a one-on-one scenario. The police had the upper hand without a shadow of a doubt. The videos do not show him lunging or swinging the knife at them. Thank God for cell phones and people brave enough to record these events as they unfold. Otherwise people - including police officers - would be getting away with a lot of injustice in this world.
    gogomom and pink-lily like this.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie_ View Post
    Maybe cops are quicker to shoot now a days because theres been a lot of horrible things that have happened lately.
    Maybe they didnt known he only had a knife? What if he had a
    bomb and blew everyone up before they could wrestle him. I dont know, just thinking out loud.
    If that's the case, that they are so fearful of worse case scenarios, not going on facts and just shooting out of fear then I think they maybe should switch to a less dangerous job because that would be really irresponsible.

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